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JA Interview: CJR’s Michael Meyer and Street Fight co-founder David Hirschman on technology and revenue for publishers
The JA’s most recent forum explored how collaboration could increase revenue for publishers. This JA interview, below, opens a discussion about innovation; how publishers are responding to rapid technological developments that often focus on commerce over content, and what role innovation plays in bringing bucks to journalism. For two perspectives, we asked Street Fight co-founder David Hirschman and Columbia Journalism Review staff writer Michael Meyer to share their insights. We spoke via Skype late last week, as David was finalizing the agenda for Street Fight Summit West, his organization’s California iteration of its annual New York conference, and Michael was adding startup #267 to the CJR’s Guide to Online News Startups.
Most people can’t keep up with the speed of technological change. So maybe it’s no surprise that Street Fight co-founder David Hirschman mentioned a not-so-new technology when I kicked off our conversation by asking what he’s seen that will actually help publishers earn money.
To hear the full discussion from the start, click the sound file below. You can also skip to conversation highlights via these links, or read the transcript, which includes links back to the audio.
Street Fight Summit West discount
Street Fight hosts its first West Coast conference June 5 in San Francisco, exploring innovation around local commerce, consumers, and content. For a 20% JA community discount, use the code JASFSW12 when you register.
Hirschman flagged geotagging, calling it one “great step forward” for publishers. Adding location tags to news stories has been possible and practiced for several years, but a Knight Digital Media Center post published last fall asserted that most news organizations were doing “little to upgrade their content management system to systematically and consistently geotag” content.
Hirschman says he sees more and more publishers beginning to geotag now. He sees the practice as a possible path to increasing revenue because geotagging keeps news stories accessible and relevant – in other words, valuable – longer if they are connected to a place. A longer life for content can lead to more hits over time, more hits can mean better numbers and better numbers can potentially help boost advertising revenue.
Jump to the transcript
If you like to read more than listen, check out the full transcript of this interview. We’re testing a couple things with this: the services of new startup, TranscribeMe, which uses multiple people around the globe to transcribe a single interview, and the value of providing information in multiple formats. Please let us know what you think! The JA edited the transcript provided to correct errors, add links back to the audio, and make it a little easier to read.
Why does it take time for publishers to adopt tech to their advantage? One reason may be there is a lot out there! I asked Hirschman and Michael Meyer, who runs CJR’s Guide to Online News Startups, for tips publishers can use as they wade through the onslaught. Meyer says the lure of innovation can be distracting, because successful publishing businesses are rooted in community connection. He says publishers’ “audience and advertisers have to be with them step by step.”
Learn more about the potential for technology to increase publisher revenue by listening to our 20 minute conversation, above. You can also skip to specific points in the interview using the links below, or read a transcript of the full interview, including links back to the audio.
- Michael Meyer on startups: Publishers can “leverage the fact they’re the new kid on the block and turn that weakness into a strength.”
- David Hirschman on all the companies that have “popped up” to create “bells and whistles” for things that publishers could do online. “Another part of the question is should they really be doing it.”
- Meyer on using old skills to earn new revenue.
- Hirschman on why the innovation pendulum could swing from local commerce toward local news publishing soon.
- Why Hirschman calls geotagging a “great step forward” for publishers.
- Meyer on the distracting lure of innovation.
- A discussion of the “Walmart effect” on content.
- Where tech and publishing are headed. (Hint: big data and building credibility with a community.)
Near the end of our conversation, David Hirschman said he doesn’t know of any news product that uses location data “properly” – which I took to mean news sites aren’t taking advantage of the potential of readers’ location data. If you know examples of news producers using location data in an effective way, please post examples in the comment thread! Or share your ideas: How would you like to marry user location and news stories?
CJR’s Michael Meyer closed with the thought that credibility will help startup news sites increase revenue over time. We’ll continue to track that as sites continue to build their reputations. We’re always interested in specific examples to deepen the community knowledge base, so if you can share a story about a news site’s credibility helping close an ad deal, or sell out an event, we’d love to hear that too.
About David Hirschman and Michael Meyer
David Hirschman co-founded Street Fight, a hyperlocal news and research site covering local news, information, advertising and commerce. Michael Meyer is a staff writer for the Columbia Journalism Review. He runs CJR’s Guide to Online News Startups.
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11 comments so far.
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Michael C. Meyer says:
May 23, 2012 at 6:09 pm
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David Cohn says:
May 23, 2012 at 6:15 pm
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Michael C. Meyer says:
May 23, 2012 at 5:52 pm
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David Hirschman says:
June 1, 2012 at 9:59 am
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Michael C. Meyer says:
May 23, 2012 at 5:51 pm
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David Cohn says:
May 23, 2012 at 5:32 pm
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David Hirschman says:
June 1, 2012 at 9:47 am
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Michael Shapiro says:
May 23, 2012 at 5:21 pm
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Emily Harris says:
May 23, 2012 at 5:13 pm
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Tom Grubisich says:
May 22, 2012 at 1:00 pm
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Michael Shapiro says:
May 22, 2012 at 11:09 am
| ParticipantsThanks, David. When you speak of the revenue potential of geo-tagging do you mean using that newfound info on readers’ locations to better gear the editorial product to them? Or do you see it as the sort of info that might further entice advertisers?
I was talking more about the potential of advertising. Here’s a post that explains a bit more of my thinking: http://blog.digidave.org/2010/04/spot-us-version-of-advertising-what-are-your-thoughts (see the section titled: “Re-inventing our Relationship to Advertising”
As for the wall between editorial and business at startups, I would say that Michael Shapiro and AlternativePress.com’s situation is relatively rare. I don’t see a lot of church-state divide at startups for the simple reason that many organizations are too small to realistically expect a clean division of labor. I would say that most sites I encounter are steeped in the ethics of old media and do their best to live by that code, but Emily is right that the wall is not nearly as intact as it used to be. Editor/publisher/founder/salesperson/reporter is a very common job title at local startups.
I agree, and don’t think that’s necessarily as bad a thing as journalism purists make it out to be. Like you say, Michael, the folks who run these sites may be in roles with potential conflicts, but it’s only a problem if they don’t approach the operation with integrity. Seems like that would be rare.
Thanks for your thoughts Tom, Michael, and Emily. Re: geo-tagging. The answer is no. I don’t see many local publishers using it at this point. People are aware of it, but its just one more platform to learn and people are justifiably hesitant about any move that won’t boost revenue in the short term – and I don’t think geo-tagging can be very effective in boosting revenue in the short term. That said, I think extending the life of stories (what David and Tom both cited as the main benefit) is a wonderful thing enabled by digital formats that is extremely underutilized. Geo-tagging is one way to do it. Databases are another. That’s a major underlying premise of the value of my project at CJR (http://www.cjr.org/nfdb) which is both an editorial product and a database. I’ve spoken with one site that is considering packaging its one-off video stories into a larger TV-esque weekly broadcast.
Great piece – especially around GoeTagging. What gives geo-tagging value on the revenue side is the extra info you get from users (as opposed to just their email address – now you get the location as well) and in some respects this speaks to the true power of community reporting as well.
I didn’t quite get to this before, but aside from advancing the long-term value/relevance of a news piece, David’s right that you’ve got some great data to work with when you geotag stories and make them accessible on maps.
When someone searches for geotagged stories around a specific place, you know that they have a specific interest in what is going on there — that’s a very valuable thing to sell to an advertiser. I don’t know if there are companies that make ad systems like this yet, but a publisher could potentially sell ads to merchants guaranteeing that that people are reading news stories that took place within a certain radius of their business.
Thanks Emily. We currently have limited geotagging but are exploring implementing it on a regular basis throughout the site. Regarding being deeply involved in the community, our news division is separate from our marketing/advertising side – our reporters are experienced journalists not involved on the marketing/advertising side and are to report on the news objectively. While it is important for us to be embedded in the community and we are on a first name basis with pretty much everyone in the governments in our towns, we do not shy away from covering the tough hard news stories that the government officials would rather not see publicized. And from what I’ve found, they respect us even more for not being afraid to tackle the controversial news even when it is about them.
Tom, Michael, thank you for coming by – you both raise interesting points. I’d love your responses and want to bring CJR’s Michael Meyer back to weigh in on questions your comments raise for me. First, on geotagging, Michael Shapiro, do you do that regularly with articles on TheAlternativePress.com? Is it built into the platform you’re offering publishers? Michael Meyer, do you see many publishers geotagging? Are there other ways to extend the life and value of articles?
And Tom, you speak of partnerships with advertisers; Michael Shapiro, you speak of being deeply involved in community. I know the walls between editorial and business are all over the place now – where should they be? Where should walls between being involved in the community and reporting on the community be? Michael Meyer, how do you see publishers handling those areas now?
David’s stressing of how geo-tagging can extend the ordinarily very short tail of news stories — a day or even less — is very important, and from a revenue as well as user-interest point of view. Regarding technology and revenue, both David and Michael talked about how technology makes the advertiser not just the hyperlocal publisher’s client but partner. With tech tools, the publisher empowers the advertiser to be able to connect with consumers more widely and deeply. This partnering doesn’t always result in more revenue for the publisher, but it enhances his/her relationships with advertisers, and this can’t help to mutually beneficial long term.
This article is a really helpful mini-education for current and would-be hyperlocal publishers. One of the most important points made is that “publishing businesses are rooted in community connection.” That could not be more true. At TheAlternativePress.com we are embedded in our communities – – not just providing news, speaking with businesses about their marketing, having reporters on the ground etc. – – we’re deeply involved in our communities. I’m President-Elect of the local Rotary club, I volunteer on the Y’s Advancement Committee, I’m on the Board of four different business associations, and our reporters, columnists, marketing consultants, advisory board members, and executive board members are similarly involved. Hyperlocal is not just about talking the talk regarding being local – – it’s about walking the walk.